S3 Episode 7 - Born on the Same Day: Vedic Astrology Unveils Distinct Paths Under the Same Stars
Unravelling the Mysteries of Vedic Astrology - Unique Paths Under Same Stars
Welcome back to another insightful episode at The Vedic Astrology Podcast. In this blog post, we dive into a thrilling exploration of the mysteries of Vedic Astrology and try to differentiate between two unknown celebrity birth charts.
Discovery with AstroliJam
At our recent AstroliJam session, we immersed ourselves in a fascinating astrological adventure. Using two anonymous charts of notable personalities, both born on the same day, we endeavored to answer, “Can Vedic Astrology help us distinguish between individuals born on the same day, renowned for different reasons?”
Initial Impressions and Breakdown
Analyzing the natal charts, we first observed that both had a Moon in the 10th house, a typical indicator for fame due to the moonlight’s appealing effect on the masses. Subtle differences began to emerge when we noted that we had a Rahu-Moon conjunction creating a magnetic attraction in chart A, whereas in chart B, the Moon stood alone in Virgo.
Magnetude of Fame
In Vedic astrology, Rahu is known to amplify the traits of the planet it partners with. The tenacious and determined persona associated with Chart A, symbolized by its Scorpio lagna with Saturn on the Ascendant, and the magnetic Rahu-Moon (the chart’s 9th Lord and Atmakaraka) conjunction creates an irresistible and righteous pull - indicating higher fame for this individual. On the contrary, Chart B had a less predictable appeal as the Moon in the 10th House of fame and status was ruling the 8th House of sudden breaks and changes and of taboo topics.
Struggle and Early Death – A Hint at Addiction
The second question focused on identifying the individual who struggled with addiction and met an early death. Here, the benefics in Chart B, that are indulgent when at their worst, hinted towards fostering an addiction, especially with the debilitated position of Ascendant Lord Jupiter and harsh Saturn in the 12th house.
Controversy and Incarceration
Finally, we tried to identify the person who was not just controversial but also ended up incarcerated. Chart B’s 12th house, occupied by its 2nd Lord of harsh speech, Saturn, hinted towards the gritty reality of prison and the loss of liberty.
The Power of Vedic Astrology – Revealing the Unseen!
In this fascinating experiment, the distinct natal maps provided through Vedic Astrology were instrumental in differentiating the life paths of two individuals born under the same stars.
Download the Charts for yourself
And see if you can identify these two famous celebrities!
Invitation to Join us next time
Vedic Astrology carries immense power, helping us unravel the mysteries of our existence, and this session epitomizes its depth. Why not come along for our next AstroliJam on February 22nd, where we’ll dive deeper into the celestial web of another pair of personalities born on the same day.
Transcript
Born on the Same Day: Vedic Astrology Unveils Distinct Paths Under the Same Stars
Fiona Marques: [00:00:00]
The Complexity of Astrology Beyond Sun Signs
Fiona Marques: Hello everyone, welcome back to The Vedic Astrology Podcast. My name is Fiona Marques. Today we're going to have a look at two birth charts and what Vedic Astrology can do to help us differentiate between two blank charts that don't know the identity of. So can Vedic Astrology help us identify two people born on the same day, both famous for different things and at different levels of fame?
Do you think that's possible?
When it is the case that we don't know very much about Astrology, we haven't been exposed to it, it seems incredible that one could predict a person's personality or fate based on whether they're an Aries or a Capricorn or a Cancer, whatever it is. And when we grow up in that culture of seeing star signs predicted in the magazine with [00:01:00] everybody who's an Aquarius getting the same prediction. It really lends itself to that incredulity about Astrology.
And then as one begins to learn a bit about Astrology, we realize that being an Aquarius or being a Capricorn or being a Pisces means one's Sun is in Pisces or one's Sun is in Taurus. And that brings to our awareness that, if the Sun is in Taurus, then other planets might be in other places.
So we begin to realize that there's a whole lot more to Astrology than where one's Sun is placed.
Plus, everybody has their Sun somewhere. There's only 12 places for it to be. So if we think about for one year, there are those 30 or 31 days when the Sun is in a particular Zodiac sign. And if you take that over the [00:02:00] whole of everybody who's living, there must be loads and loads of people with their Sun in Aries or loads and loads of people with their Sun in Leo.
So we can begin to start narrowing that down if we just think about the one year. Okay, if we think of everybody who was born in a particular year with their Sun in a particular sign, like Sagittarius. Just everybody born in one year with their Sun in Sagittarius. We've narrowed it down to a 28, 29, 30 day period.
But there's a lot of people born in that 30 day period. So although their planets might be more or less in the same places. We're still talking about hundreds of thousands of people born on that day. In fact, according to the internet about 11.5 million people are born in a month, every month.
So having your Sun in Virgo [00:03:00] in one year puts you in a group with 11 and a half million other people.
So then we begin to want to refine that down to the day that a person was born. What about that exact degree? If we think of the Sun moving one degree every day, then we've got 30 degrees that the Sun moves through that sign. And so what about just one day within that Sun in Virgo?
According to the internet, that is 385,000 people born when the Sun is at that one degree of Virgo or that one degree of Gemini. So there's still a lot of people sharing exactly the same Sun placement.
And then as we dive deeper into Astrology, we realized that the Ascendant degree can help greatly in narrowing this 385,000 people per [00:04:00] day into smaller categories so we can begin to speak more specifically about a person's personality or their tendencies or their fate, their karma.
And so then the Ascendant becomes very important because this moves much faster and the Ascendant spends about two hours of a day in each Zodiac Sign. So we're getting a much smaller slice of that population.
AstroliJam: A Space for Astrology Research and Discussion
Fiona Marques: Now, we wanted to push this a little bit and see what we could find out in our most recent AstroliJam. And AstroliJam is our play space where we agree on a chart to go and research independently. And then we meet as a group and discuss our insights and findings. It's a great place to try out things that you might not be confident yet with clients. And to ask the opinion of other Astrologers [00:05:00] who are there, who've looked at the same chart. And we've been doing this for over two years. The next meeting, I think it's the 28th time that we're going to meet. So we've built up quite a repertoire of insights into charts, and we're feeling a bit confident, courageous, so we've recently moved into looking at mystery charts. Previously, we've always looked at charts of celebrities, saints or well known religious people that we can verify the kind of life that they had, so that as we're researching the chart, we can be looking at their biography. But as many of my students are now getting ready to do their Timing Exam, and the Timing Exam is two mystery charts, we thought that we would start practicing some mystery charts. The previous month we did a mystery chart that was the founder of the American Red Cross, a nurse named Clara Barton. And actually [00:06:00] the group found it very easy. So this particular time they asked for a bit more difficult.
I chose for them two charts, two blank charts that they don't know their identity of, both famous people born on the same day. So can Vedic Astrology help us identify two people born on the same day, both famous for different things and at different levels of fame?
Do you think that's possible? So why don't you come with me as we have a look at
two birth charts, both from the same day. One is a Female Chart and one is a Male Chart. One is born in the United Kingdom. One is born in the United States. They're born at different times of the day.
And this is quite a useful exercise, because often when you meet with clients, when they want a reading with you, they may not actually know their exact birth time.
And we need the exact birth time in order to get the Ascendant, because [00:07:00] that shows us which sign was rising on the Eastern horizon at the time of the birth. As Astrologers we might be faced with this situation where a client gives either the whole day as their birth time, or they give a range like in the morning after dinner, around lunchtime before midnight, they'll give you some kind of time range, but that time range is so large that it crosses over one or more Ascendants.
So as a working astrologer, I do find that this comes up sometimes. That one has to try to navigate, decide which Ascendant represents this client. In some ways this AstroliJam "play" reflects what it's like to be a working Astrologer.
The Identical and Non-identical Cosmos of Two Birth Charts from the Same Day
Fiona Marques: So let's just have a look at what was going on in the sky when these people were born. We have a moment of the transiting sky that becomes the birth chart. And because we are listening along to the podcast, let us imagine in our mind, [00:08:00] a clear chart. And let's begin at Aries. And identify that there are no planets in Aries transiting at the time of this birth. And there were no planets in Taurus either. There was nothing in Gemini. And there was nothing in Cancer. So those first four signs of the Zodiac, no planets. Then in Leo, we have Rahu. So the North Node was located in Leo. Then in Virgo, there were no planets. Then we get to Libra, and in Libra there are three planets at the time of this transit. There are Mars, Sun, and Mercury. So Mars, the Sun, and Mercury were all in Libra at the time of this birth. And then next door in Scorpio, there was the planet Saturn. In Sagittarius, there was the planet Venus. [00:09:00] In Capricorn, there was Jupiter and then in Aquarius, there was Ketu. Before finally in Pisces, there were no planets.
So just to recap, Aries, Taurus, Gemini, Cancer, no planets. In Leo, there was Rahu. Virgo, no planets. Mars, Sun, Mercury were in Libra. And Saturn was in Scorpio. Then Venus was in Sagittarius. Jupiter in Capricorn. And Ketu was in Aquarius.
Now, as you are listening along, you may notice that I haven't mentioned the Moon.
And that is because the Moon moves so fast that in this case, the Moon actually changed signs. So keep that picture that you've created in your mind. And in the female birth chart, the Moon is in Leo. So there is a Rahu-Moon conjunction in Leo in the Female [00:10:00] Chart, which we're calling Chart A, which is the chart that happened first.
And then the planet continued its rotation. And by the time the second person was born, the male was born in Chart B, the Moon was now in Virgo. So it's no longer a Rahu-Moon conjunction. Rahu is in Leo and the Moon is in Virgo.
So if we were to summarize the Female Chart, Chart A, we can say that the Sun is in Libra and the Moon is in Leo. Whereas for the Male Chart, the Sun is in Libra and the Moon is in Virgo.
Now, the only thing that we need to know to finish off our mental map of this chart is where is the Ascendant? So for Chart A, we know that this is the chart that happened first and it happened in the United Kingdom. And at that particular time when this person was born, [00:11:00] the sign of Scorpio was rising on the eastern horizon. And so the Ascendant for the Female Chart Is Scorpio. With Saturn on the Ascendant, Venus in the 2nd House, Jupiter in the 3rd House. Ketu in the 4th House, and then no planets until we have a Rahu-Moon conjunction in the 10th, and Mars, Sun, and Mercury in the 12th.
Then the planet kept spinning, and actually we moved. So this person's in the United States, the second person. So imagine the day goes on, the earth rotates, the Sun moves around to this part of the earth. And in fact, when the second person was born, Chart B, the male, It was a Sagittarius Ascendant. So this person, the Chart B, the Male Chart, has Venus on the Ascendant in Sagittarius, Jupiter in the 2nd House, Ketu in the 3rd House, and then no planets until Rahu in the [00:12:00] 9th. Moon in the 10th, Mars, Sun, Mercury in the 11th, and Saturn in the 12th.
3 Identity Questions
Fiona Marques: So these are our two birth charts. And what can Vedic Astrology tell us? Can we pick between these two charts? So we were given three questions that you might like to contemplate for this chart. Both would be considered well known. However, one is famous on a massive scale and the other person is well known in their industry.
Is it able to be told by Vedic Astrology, which one is more famous? One of them struggled with drug addiction and died early. Can we tell which one that is? And then one of these people was jailed. Can we tell which one that was?
And this is really quite miraculous. Being able to tell the main features of someone's life just through their chart. Because really it should be [00:13:00] completely random, right? It shouldn't have anything to do with the Planets. That's how I always think about it. Really Astrology shouldn't work. I don't really understand how or why Astrology would work. And yet, are there things that we can tell from these charts?
Comparing the Aspects, Vargas, Jaimini Karakas and Shadbala of the Charts
Fiona Marques: So as we think about each of these charts, and as you think about when you have your own situations where the client doesn't quite know their birth time, what are some of the things that we can do that might help us just have a broad idea of which Ascendant fits better?
Now, there are a few things that stand out as different in these charts and you've probably already, as you're listening, noticed a few of those. So we'll go and have a look at some of them. But perhaps we could also look at just the major sub data analysis charts that we would normally look at.
These charts by aspect are basically exactly the same. The planets [00:14:00] really haven't moved enough to change the squares or the trines or the sextiles. The only thing that has changed is there any aspecting to the Ascendant degree. So that is different. But apart from that, the planets remained in the same overall layout for both charts. So looking at aspects is not going to be drastically different for these two.
The same goes for Dignities in the Vargas. So not the house placements in the Vargas. That is specific to different birth times. So you do need to go look at the house placements in the Vargas. But in terms of Dignities, we're really looking more or less at the same placement. Certainly for the several vagas at the beginning.
And we know that both of these people were famous. And if we were to look at their D10, we can see that the Dignities improve very much in the D10. In [00:15:00] the birth chart for both charts, the Sun is debilitated. And In the D10 for birth chart, the Sun is exalted. In the birth chart for both charts, the Moon is in great friend dignity. And in the D10, it's in Moolatrikona. Mars in the birth charts is in friend for both birth charts. It's exalted in the D10. Mercury is in great friend for both in the birth charts and in the D10, it's Great Friend for Chart A, the Female Chart, and Own Home for Chart B, the Male Chart. Jupiter goes from debilitated to neutral in both charts. Venus stays in Friend. And Saturn moves from neutral to friend in both charts. So we see an improvement across the board in the D10. But this just confirms what we already know that these people are both famous. So their D10, the Varga that we look at for our status in [00:16:00] the world, our impact on the world both feeling good about their impact on the world. That's where they feel they're at their best because their Varga works so well.
Interestingly, in this particular case, the Jāmini karakas do change for these charts. If you did have the Kala screen in front of you, you would find in fact that in Chart A, we know that the Moon is going to move into Virgo for chart B. So we know that the Moon is towards the very end of Leo in Chart A, and that means that it's actually the planet with the highest degrees. And that makes the Moon, the Atmakaraka for Chart A. Whereas in Chart B the Moon has moved into Virgo. So actually it's at the very first degrees of Virgo and it becomes the Dharakaraka for Chart B and Mercury is the Atmakaraka for Chart B.
That is not necessarily always the [00:17:00] case because often when you look at distinguishing between two charts that you know a range of time you might find that actually all of your Jāmini karakas stay exactly the same.
But in this chart, that is not the case.
And the Shadbala is obviously many and varied, but I think it is worth noting that the Digbala changes a lot based on the Ascendant, right? Because some planets do much better closer to the Ascendant and away from the Ascendant. So I just wanted to highlight that Digbala would change because we're changing the houses.
Now let's once again, bring that image of the charts to our mind. Onon the Chart A, Female side, we have a Scorpio Ascendant with Saturn on the Ascendant. And on the Chart B side, we have a Male with a Sagittarius Ascendant and Venus on the Ascendant. So why don't we talk about some of the major differences that we can see about the chart before we dive into answering these [00:18:00] questions that we've been given.
Comparing the Ascendants
Fiona Marques: One of the things that we can notice straight away is the differences in the Ascendant placement. So in Chart A, the Female Chart, we have the Ascendant in Scorpio. And this means that the planet that owns Scorpio is Mars, which is considered to be a malefic in Vedic Astrology. And malefics are demanding and they challenge us to bring out our best.
We also have in that chart, Saturn on the Ascendant, which is another malefic. Which is also going to challenge us to bring out our best. So for Chart A, the person's 1st House of their life path and personality has two malefics associated with it, both Mars and Saturn So the information we're receiving from Vedic Astrology about this person, about their life path, is that there's a [00:19:00] hardness to it, or there's a challenge to it. There's a determination, a resilience, a persistence. This sort of just gives a really solid, determined feel to this chart because we've got two malefics associated with the Ascendant.
In Chart B, the Male chart, we have Sagittarius as the Ascendant sign, which means Jupiter owns the sign of Sagittarius and represents something about this person's life path and personality and their body.
And Jupiter is a benefic. It's the great benefic in Vedic Astrology. And it's expansive, optimistic compassionate. And we also have Venus on the Ascendant [00:20:00] in the 1st House of Chart B, the Male Chart. And Venus is also a benefic. It is our somatic wisdom. It is leading us to higher fulfillment through the senses. Using our senses to find satisfaction that leads us towards higher fulfillment.
So we have a much softer feeling about chart B's Ascendant, their life path, their personality. We've got these two benefics associated with their Ascendant degree. So immediately we're getting the feeling that this person is in a much softer situation. And Chart A is in a much more gritty situation, or we could say that Chart B is going to take a softer approach to life and Chart A is predisposed to take a grittier approach to life. So feel that difference straight away?
The [00:21:00] other difference around the Ascendant is that in Chart B, the Male Chart. the Sagittarius Ascendant, which is associated with Jupiter. Jupiter in both of these charts is debilitated. So for Chart B, the Ascendant Lord is in Capricorn. And the Ascendant Lord, Jupiter, doesn't really like being in Capricorn because Jupiter is what we talked about it's optimistic. It's full of opportunities and compassion, and it's looking for the big picture. It just sees the interconnected wonder and awe of all life. And Capricorn is an incredibly realistic space in the sky. It is full of resources, but they can only be harnessed through hard work. And Saturn has that natural vision of looking down. It's Tamasic kind of space. Seeing the problems and [00:22:00] working hard, hard labor to change those problems into solutions, which is why Mars is exalted here in Capricorn. But Jupiter with its goodwill, openness, big picture is just not really thriving in such a hard, reality based Tamasic kind of space. So this tells us also that Chart B that we were already thinking had this softer approach to life is perhaps a little bit struggling because the Ascendant Lord that is soft, is in a very hard and difficult situation.
So we can think as humans, how nice it would be to have an easy life. And the thought of having two benefics associated with one's Ascendant sounds like an excellent start to life. However, benefics might not be able to help us with the rubber [00:23:00] hitting the road. They can be great friends when things are going well, and they've got all of the "Yay!!!", cheer squad support approach. But when things are tough, and we really have to dig deep, that's not necessarily what we associate with benefic planets. And so they can feel a bit out of their depth, overwhelmed, or even depressed in this situation that's very hard. That it doesn't matter how optimistic they are, they still have to do the hard labor. Like literally think of that pickaxe and the rocks and having your ankle shackled in some, kind of jail or prison or something that is Capricorn space. You've got rocks and you can break them up and you'll get the resources. Maybe you'll even get the diamonds from them. The resources are there. But the hard labor is there. And it doesn't matter how optimistic or how many myths or how many great stories you can tell about the insights of everything, you're still going to [00:24:00] get calluses on your hands because you just have to apply yourself to the hard work of Capricorn. And are the benefics really up to that kind of pressure and that kind of monotony? Because they're predisposed to work well in the good times. So we can say about Chart B that we are perhaps getting concerned that this person is a bit challenged here. That their Ascendant Lord is soft and it's in a very hard place.
Examining the Magnitude of Fame
Fiona Marques: Fame is associated for both of these people and why might that be the case? When we think about fame we're going to think about the 10th House because the 10th House is the top of the sky in anybody's birth chart. It's the most obvious highlighted planet. It's the most activated angular house.
And both of these charts have the Moon in their 10th House. Andwhen we think of fame, the Moon is a great planet to associate with fame because it reflects back the [00:25:00] light of the Sun. So often we think of it as, appealing to the masses because the Moonlight is just so attractive to people. So wonderful to be in the Moonlight. Having the Moon in the 10th is a nice indicator for fame. So let's just go back to Chart A, the Female Chart. Think of it as being a Scorpio Ascendant and just count your way around and you will find that Cancer is the 9th House. For all Scorpio Ascendants. The 9th Lord is auspicious and gracious. Great to have the Moon associated with that for Scorpio Ascendants. In this case, the Moon has gone into the 10th House, which is Leo ruled by the Sun. So very nice placement, the 9th Lord in the 10th House. We like that. It's a Raja yoga. It's a trinal house with an angular house. So lovely placement for Scorpio Ascendant.
Let's take our mind over to the Sagittarius Ascendant and do the same thing. You can think about Sagittarius [00:26:00] being the 1st House and just count your way around and you will find that Cancer is the 8th House for the Sagittarius Ascendant. And so we have here the 8th Lord, the Moon in the 10th House, not the 9th Lord in the 10th House.
So in Chart B, this indicator for fame in the 10th House is linked to the person's 8th house Cancer, the 8th house. And we know that the 8th house is about sudden breaks and changes. It's a much more dynamic kind of house. It's also a Moksha house, meaning that it's not operating on such a materialistic plane, the 8th house. And here it is in the 10th House.
So we have both of these people have their Moon in the 10th House. However, in Chart A, it is a Raja yoga, the 9th Lord in the 10th House. In Chart B, it is the 8th Lord in the 10th House. [00:27:00] So again, that is a little bit different. We're thinking that the 9th Lord in the 10th House probably works better than the 8th Lord in the 10th House, if we had to guess, which is what we're doing with these two blank charts.
Now we have another factor here, which is that in Chart A, the Female Chart, it is a Rahu-Moon conjunction. So Rahu is perhaps amplifying this 9th Lord in the 10th House and just making it extramagnetic, attractive, weird, unusual .So we could say that this is extra accentuation to this Moon that's in the 10th House with Rahu. That is adding some mysterious, attractive, but hard to put your finger on why you're attracted to it. It just calls you. It's magnetic.
Whereas in Chart B, that is not the case. the Moon is on its own in Virgo. [00:28:00] So when we are looking at our first question, which one of these people is exponentially more famous, we're beginning to think that Chart A is perhaps that chart, because we're seeing not only is the Moon on the 10th House, not only is it a Raja Yoga, (not only is it the AtmaKaraka) it is with Rahu and it is adding that extra magic.
And this is the reason actually why I included the gender. One of the reasons why I included the gender of the people because when a person is female, Rahu-Moon can be quite magnetic and hypnotic. Something incredibly attractive, and not necessarily physically attractive, but like one is drawn, I guess like the tides, the high tide, one is drawn towards this Rahu-Moon combination in women. In men, that would be Rahu-Sun would be the equivalent of that. So if we have to guess, we are thinking that Chart A in fact is the person who is [00:29:00] exponentially more famous because we have this Rahu-Moon situation.
Examining Drug Addiction and Early Death
Fiona Marques: Now the second question was knowing that one of these persons died young and struggled with drug addiction, can we determine what in the chart might help us with that?
And I think with Chart A, we're fairly clear that this grittiness and determination from having Mars and Saturn associated with the Ascendant is probably helping the person to get through life's challenges.
So it leans us slightly towards thinking about Chart B, because we know that this has got a softer kind of approach. And unfortunately, this is where Benefics, when they're not working well, they indulge us. Which is what they want to do. but it can be a very unhelpful [00:30:00] practice, right? Because that is what can foster an addiction that might be there. Is if that energy just wants to give and give. And so here we have a benefic on the Ascendant, Venus. And it is getting Rasi aspected from a Waning Moon. So it's got one Rasi aspect that is perhaps not that helpful. And if we were to have a look at the Lajjitaadi Avasthas, it's also being Starved by that Moon. So we know something about that benefic. And of course. That Rasi aspect would not be happening on the Chart A because the Moon is not Rasi aspecting Venus in chart A.
But in Chart B we have this Waning Moon, also Rasi aspecting onto Venus. But where the Rasi aspects really begin to pile up is for Jupiter, the Ascendant Lord. Is in the 2nd House, debilitated and it's getting a Rasi aspect from [00:31:00] Rahu and it's getting a Rasi aspect from Saturn. And it's not receiving any benefic Rasi aspects.
So it's already in a tough position and here it is getting a little bit piled on in terms of those channels, those Rasi channels. So Jupiter getting a little bit of a malefic Rasi aspect here.
But not only that, it is in the 2nd House and the 2nd House is really important I think when one is looking at addictions. Because the 2nd House is what we put into our mouth. It's also what comes out of our mouth. So it tells us about speech. But it also is what we consume, what we swallow. Addictions often taken in, they need to come into the body. And also the 2nd House is associated with our immediate family. The immediate family is where we receive the nurturing that [00:32:00] solidifies our existence. When we're born, the human baby is pretty helpless. It needs warmth. It needs food. It needs shelter. It needs to sleep a lot. Just needs an environment that is very focused on nurturing this human baby into a child and into an adult. And if we think about the natural 2nd Sign of the Zodiac is Taurus. We want that really stable earth mother energy. It's not just about the mother, it's the whole immediate family. So the 2nd House tells us a lot about how we have been nurtured, how we have been fed and how our needs have been met when we were most vulnerable, because the human baby is very vulnerable. So that's what the 2nd House tells us.
And, if that was not great, then we may look to satisfy those needs from the 2nd House [00:33:00] through other things that we can put in our mouth and other things that make us feel safe or make us feel nurtured, or those needs are met. So this is why the 2nd House is really important when looking at addictions.
And here we have the debilitated 1st Lord in this very hard Capricorn 2nd House. Sowe know that one of these people struggled with addictions, we think maybe it's this person.
And we can also look at the 12th house. Because the 12th house is where we escape. It's the end of the Zodiac. It's where we leave. Ideally, it talks to us about the Moksha, the transcending of the material world. But if it's not working well, it can also talk to us about escaping from our hardships. And we see that we have Saturn here in the 12th house of this Male Chart B. And that makes us think that perhaps even escaping had this hardness about it. And so it might not have been [00:34:00] easy to escape. And so we want to consume more in the 2nd House to try to make that escape space more comforting and more satisfying. So when we're just looking at what we have available in a blind chart, we're thinking that Chart B might be the person that died young and suffered from addictions.
Examining Incarceration
Fiona Marques: That finally leaves us with the third question, which was about only one of these people was actually incarcerated, even though both of these people were controversial. And where are we looking for that indicator? Once again, we're looking at the 12th house. In Chart A, we have many planets going on in the 12th house, and we do have a couple of malefics in there. So there's plenty of action in the 12th house.
But in Chart B, the Male Chart, we have, as we already talked about, Saturn in the 12th house, which gives us an [00:35:00] indication that this person may have faced the reality of the 12th house. That is the gritty reality of a prison cell. So we leaning ourselves towards Chart B as being our person who is incarcerated.
Bhava Yogas Summary
Fiona Marques: So having a look at these blind charts, just in the major topography, we have been able to find some answers to these questions. And this is something that when each of us researched the chart, we had more time to look in depth. And you can have that time too, to really look. There are some amazing Bhava Yogas for each person.
We've got ,in Chart A, because of those two malefics associated with Ascendant, somebody who's very goal oriented, developing their self esteem through overcoming obstacles. They've got the 3rd Lord on the 1st House. And they've got the [00:36:00] 4th Lord on the 1st House, emotional poise. Like able to navigate that 4th House of emotions. And remember, they also have Ketu on the 4th House. So this Chart A is someone that we're not only thinking has got the grit to get through life, but they might be quite an emotionally controlled person as well.
And then if we have a look, you can obviously do all of this research yourself, we have got
that 9th Lord in the 10th House in Chart A. So there's loads of Bhava Yogas that are very rich for that one. Like lives a Dharmic and inspired life, perhaps works on the law or politics, is an inspiring figure, rises to high positions. But possibly also a little bit introverted. The Bhava Yogas help us to flesh out a little bit the personality of the person.
For Chart B, we've got Venus on the Ascendant, but it [00:37:00] is the 6th Lord. So this is going to, right from the beginning, bring to the person's awareness an association with the 6th. The struggles of life, perhaps someone who's worried, maybe had a difficult birth, maybe sees life as a fight, dwells on these problems, always expects problems. Quite a different combination just right from the beginning. And of course, Venus on the Ascendant is the 6th Lord, but it's also the 11th Lord, which in Vedic Astrology can be what leads us away from our Dharma. And this is right here on the 1st house, perhaps making this person aspire to achieving their goals and dreams, wanting to integrate with the politics and the society. So maybe looking at life through that view of that large interconnected society.
They do have Jupiter, their Ascendant Lord, in the 2nd House, which helps them speak on honestly. But that Jupiter is debilitated. So is that honesty going to go down well with others?
And they have the 8th [00:38:00] Lord in the 10th House. They might be really good at uncovering scandals and secrets. They might like to dig into the taboo kind of topics. But their career and life, their fame, can be prone to scandal and to breaks and changes.
If you would like to get the chance to dig into these, you can go much deeper than we can here on the podcast.
Invitation to next AstroliJam with 2 more "Born on the Same Day" Charts
Fiona Marques: So I wonder what you think about this ability of Vedic Astrology to differentiate between people born even on the same day. If you would like to join us for chance to have a look at blind charts, you can sign up for our next AstroliJam, which is 22nd of February. It's always on a Thursday. And we have once again, two blind charts. Two celebrities. In this case the February case, they are not adjacent Ascendants. In fact, they are opposing Ascendants. I think one's Capricorn and [00:39:00] one's Cancer. That is a little bit different than the usual situation. Often when you're working as an Astrologer, you'll get the Ascendants to be close together. You have to choose between, like in this, Scorpio and Sagittarius. But our charts for February are opposing Ascendants. Which will pose its own challenges. Because then everything that's on an angle for one person is on an angle for the other person as well. I'd be very interested to see how we go in our 2nd blind chart reading of comparing celebrities. And I hope you will join us.
And I look forward to your feedback on these charts.
Revealing the Identity of the Two Birth Charts - Spoiler Alert
Fiona Marques: It turns out that the Female Chart was that of Margaret Thatcher and the Male Chart was that of Lenny Bruce, who was an American comedian who, in some ways, started the social commentary, social critique through stand up comedy. But he was incredibly controversial. And was jailed for [00:40:00] obscenities for saying words that were considered to be obscene. And there we go we see that 2nd House getting this person in trouble. So very different lives born on the same day.
If we go back to Margaret Thatcher, a gritty, right? Hard. What did we think, that this person was going to have that kind of hard resilience. And she certainly did. And what about her magnetic attractiveness? Someone that I wouldn't say it's a classical beauty and yet she was able to attract such a following. And she was intriguing and she achieved so much the 9th Lord in the 10th House. So isn't it interesting how the Ascendant can make such a difference.
So I look forward to your thoughts and feedback, and I'd love to see you for AstroliJam on February 22nd, when we will once again, look at two charts that are celebrities born on the same day for whom we don't know their identity. And same thing we'll have a few [00:41:00] questions and see if you can pick which person belongs to which chart. Fantastic. It's been great to be with you and I look forward to seeing you the next time we're on the Vedic Astrology Podcast.